I am in Budapest today and I am just done with my Indigo talk (you can find the slides at http://codezone.info under “Talks”), having done it for the 6th time on this tour throughout Europe. After the events Den Haag, Oslo, Copenhagen, Helsinki and Geneva, I still find Indigo a very difficult topic to talk about on this tour. It’s not about technology or because my talk doesn’t work: It’s about whether people think it’s relevant to their work.

The true challenge is to explain to the developers we meet that Indigo is going to be very important for them down the road. I find that when I talk to developers on this tour or look at their evaluation forms that very many of them apparently still write fairly compact (to avoid the word monolithic) ASP.NET applications or Windows Forms applications that use a conservative client/server approach. All presentation and logic resides in one tier and the only remote component worth mentioning is the database. That means that the majority of the folks sitting in my talks hasn’t even touched one of the existing distributed technology stacks that Indigo is set to replace.

The difficulty presenting Indigo on this tour – alongside sexy stuff like declarative UI programming with spinning Windows and Videos with alpha-blending in Avalon and googlefast cross-media searches across all of your local storage media as in WinFS – is that Indigo is about things that are hidden inside applications and do not surface to the user. Stuff that drives server-applications is sometimes hard to understand without knowing the architectural background and the motivations. (Sidenote: A while ago I heard a rumor from a usually trustworthy source that the spinning balls in the COM+ Explorer exist because COM+ was horribly hard to demo as well and the spinning balls provided a good way of visualizing that stuff was happening.)

The ideal talk for an unsuspecting audience with little knowledge in distributed systems would have to sell the whole idea of distributed systems to boot, the experiences and errors made, the reasons for why Web services are a good thing, the problems creating the motivation for and the principles of service oriented architectures, a set of some tangible application examples and use cases along with the solutions that Indigo provides; all of that in the same talk and within 75 minutes. And that in a way that developers get to see code and demos, too. That sort of talk would span about 20 years of distributed computing history. I am not sure this fits in 75 minutes. Therefore I think I will have to be happy with only a fraction of the audience being interested and/or willing to appreciate the things that I am talking about here. 

Very many folks think that the topics I am talking about are only relevant to “big apps” and have a hard time seeing the benefits of something like Indigo – much in the same way as it is with Enterprise Services or Web Services.

If you believe Don Box, who said at PDC that Indigo will ship at some point between Whidbey and Longhorn, and think about the implications of that, Indigo is in fact relevant to everyone writing applications that expose functionality to other applications in some way – now or at least quite soon. The first ship vehicle for Indigo will be, if Don’s statement holds water in its consequences, some service pack or upgrade pack for Windows Server 2003 and Windows XP. That means nothing less than the entire application infrastructure of Windows Server 2003 is getting a major upgrade probably in a year or so from now.

If you are writing applications using ASMX, Remoting or Enterprise Services today, the impact of Indigo’s arrival can be immediate if you want to make it so. If you code your applications cleverly today (following guidelines explained by Joe Long here or in my talk) and don’t play too many tricks on the infrastructure – for instance by using the Remoting extensibility points – you should have a fairly smooth upgrade path to Indigo. The goal is that upgrading code will be simple and mechanical in most cases.

Saturday, January 31, 2004 3:19:45 AM UTC
Dear Clemens
In regards of selling Indigo between flashy Avalon stuff and fast file searches I believe you – as you have observed yourself - had a hard time selling Indigo to developers. I attended your presentation in Copenhagen and overheard my fellow developers in the break after the session saying - “well, that was boring” and “it wasn’t as good as the Avalon stuff” – I guess this might seem depressing to you, but to me, as a developer, this was sweet music. Why? – it only means that there will be a lot more work for me in the future. If other developers does not recognize the potential of one unified communication framework based on standards – that’s their problem. Sure the Avalon presentation was amusing, but lessons on how to put a listbox in a button won’t put butter on my bread – knowing the future of distributed computing, will. I enjoyed your presentation and the things you were talking about, the most. Thank you.
Rene
Saturday, January 31, 2004 4:32:46 AM UTC
Hi Clemens

I can only agree with (the other) Rene. I found your presentation _very_ interesting (as always) - even though I follow why many developers might think it was boring (read: to difficult to comprehend for them) compared to Lesters presentation. But as the other Rene said: more work for me. ;o)

BTW: Two guys attending the Copenhagen presentation and commenting you blog - and they are both named Rene. Spooky! Guess the name must have been popular amongst mothers giving birth to future geek-developers years back?)

Personally I found that Lester's presentation was pretty lousy this time (sorry Lester). After the first few minutes I had kindda understood what the point of XAML was(!!!) But Lester just kept repeating the same stuff over and over. "Won't he ever stop?" But no... just a coooouple of rotating buttons more. Zzzzzz I think HE ought to wear a bikini at his next presentation!

Anyways... Thanx for a great presentation. Keep it up.

Cheers
Rene
Rene Rolighed Christensen
Thursday, February 12, 2004 5:47:30 AM UTC
Hi Clemens !

I attend to the Geneva preview and was one of the rare students present. I understand your problem, personnally as a student I had difficulties to understand the whole concept of Indigo. In fact, I'm familiarized with Web Services but not with others concept as remoting. So it was difficult to really perceive the interest of Indigo. I'm even waiting since the DevDays to post something about that in my blog. Personnally I'm sure Indigo is a great idea. But what will really be the difference with comparison to Web Services isn't so clear.

I've understood that WS-Interoperability will be better implemented but what else ? So I'm waiting about further articles or the TechEd to really see what will be Indigo. But please don't have too big doubts about your presentation, it's only that ale developpers are maybe not ready yet to understand this concept. Time will help.

Thanks for your effort to explain this difficult stuff to developpers ;-)

Regards,
Matthieu
Tuesday, February 17, 2004 1:53:05 AM UTC
Clemens,

You wrote: "Very many folks think that the topics I am talking about are only relevant to “big apps” and have a hard time seeing the benefits of something like Indigo – much in the same way as it is with Enterprise Services or Web Services."

I want to understand what you are advocating. Are you saying that all applications, regardless of size and complexity, should make use of Enterprise Services, Web Services, etc.? I don't think that is what you are saying but I can see how one might draw that from the sentence.

I mean, if I pick through your article and grabs points that stick out, I see this fragment as the most telling: "think about the implications of that, Indigo is in fact relevant to everyone writing applications that expose functionality to other applications in some way – now or at least quite soon." Of course, we know that in the real world there are lots of applications that don't expose functionality to other applications. There are plenty of line of business applications for small and medium businesses that don't require ASMX, Remoting, and in the future Indigo.

I agree in general with the sentiment expressed in the article but I don't believe that the message that "ASMX or Indigo is useful and required for all applications regardless of size" is correct. I'm interested in your thoughts.


Saturday, August 06, 2005 7:54:09 PM UTC
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